Interesting. I think you’re saying that the influencers on the right are using cancel culture to eliminate the competition? And why would they need to do that? I think it’s because fewer people are worried about life
since Trump is in office, and fewer people are following these fear mongers that appeal to a certain drama-addicted demographic. So they have to find new “scary dangers” to talk about. Have a lovely day, Peter!
Are influencers on the right using "cancel culture"? That's a fair assessment, although I'm sure Jordan Peterson would disagree.
Are fewer people "worried about life"? I'm not sure if that is the case or if people are simply choosing to worry about other aspects of life.
Donald Trump's election certainly has given many people the opportunity to declare "victory" of sorts in certain debates that have been ongoing in the public sphere. Trump's full-throated opposition to identity politics allows his election to stand as a rejection of identity politics, and much that goes with it, trans ideology and DEI especially.
That can leave some influencers in an awkward position. Having won their particular debates, the challenge for them is how to move on to new debates, and new problems to address.
It's not as if the country is suddenly free from problems!
And so some influencers are choosing to adopt "scare tactics" in an effort to maintain their audience and their presumed "relevance". They are seeking to extend debates that have already run their course, rather than moving on to new debates over new issues.
I think woke has always been a sickness period and hasn’t become “anything different”. Your concerns are justified, the cancers exposed. It all seems to be getting worse instead of better…the traitors of the right out there are showing their true stripes.
Jordan Peterson has always been insufferable, and he's never been the profound thinker people have made him out to be.
Whenever people start talking like they have the inside track on truth, can safely bet they are the very least dead wrong, and quite probably lying to you.
Jordan Peterson a walking demonstration of something I've maintained for years, which is that the purpose of all jargon is to confuse the uninitiate.
As is apocryphally (mis)attributed to Albert Einstein, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." One of the more pithy formulations of the Law of Parsimony.
Peter, there you go again, being level-headed, fair, objective, insightful and generally excellent. You see the inherent aspects of humanity: the chafing at new competition, the egotistical need to keep the spotlight. Once a person obtains something of value - power, wealth, influence, attention - they gravitate to “if some is good, then more is better”. Anyone infringing on their striving for more is seen as a threat. It’s the rare person who can remain balanced, as you are. This alone is a good reason to listen to you, not to mention all the other good reasons.
The silver lining of increased competition amongst the Right is that it’s an indication of a larger audience being reached. There are so many followers, subscribers, readers and financial backers that more influencers see a way to make a living or become a star via this, and so the competition becomes fiercer. The solution is to grow the ‘pie’, and then there will be more ‘customers’ for everyone on the Right. A classic free-market solution!
I'm not sure how "balanced" I am--check back when I've got a gajillion paid subscribers!
But I will admit that tilting at windmills like this is in part to reach an ever wider audience. Yes, I want more readers, and I want more subscribers. I want people reading my Substack and eagerly waiting on me to publish fresh content.
That admission is something that doesn't come across when the influencer crowd complains about the "woke right"--or, for that matter, about the "woke left".
The problem with "woke" ideas is not that they are "woke", but that they don't work. Socialism (aka Marxism aka Communism) does not work. Critical Race Theory does not work. Identitarianism does not work.
These ideas are demonstrably at odds with empirical reality. They clash with documented history and documented science. In many instances, they clash with themselves, collapsing at the end in a puddle of reductio ad absurdum silliness.
Ideas which do not work do not work. It does not matter if the person spouting those ideas is on the political right or the political left.
Ideas which do work do work. It does not matter if the person spouting those ideas is on the political right or the political left.
That's how we can know that this pearl clutching over the "woke" right is fundamentally nonsensical. If it was just a case of bad ideas, Jordan Peterson and crew presumably could demolish the offending arguments with a few well-constructed counterarguments focused on the ideas. There would be no need to demonize the people making those arguments with insipid ad hominem comparisons to the "woke" left.
Always focus on the ideas. Not on the people and especially not on the labels.
That’s right. And most people are too caught up with the minutia of their own lives to consciously, rationally work out in their minds the merits and flaws of various ideas - but most eventually reject the flawed ideas such as CRT.
Here’s an indication of that: on the last day of my local library’s used-book sale, there were multiple copies of Woke books left unsold. CRT, Anti-Racism, Identity Politics - all the recent nonsense of ideas that could not withstand even subconscious scrutiny. Now these books were being given away for FREE - and they sat there on the table, completely unwanted. No one took them. Reality wins!
Thank you, it’s getting more difficult to find people who critically think and examine from all sides AND be able to have civil discourse. People are conditioned to react emotionally and refuse to think, I guess it takes too much work? Fear of other people’s perceptions and protection of self-image? What an exhausting way to live on the roller coaster of emotions and public opinion with no solid ground of Truth and critical thinking which is warped, distorted and manipulated. Thank you for helping us stay grounded in reality.
The foundation of all critical thinking is to focus on the ideas, not the people. We engage with people about the ideas, but the essential elements of critical thought are always organized around the ideas themselves.
This is why the ad hominem response is properly understood to be a logical fallacy rather than a logical argument.
It's one thing to denounce ideas on the political left as "woke" at this point in the public discourse. The term "woke" originated on the political left and the evolution of the term into a pejorative charts the reception of "woke" ideas in the public discourse and, ultimately, the rejection of those ideas by at least some people.
It is quite a different thing to denounce emergent ideas on the political right as "woke". Being emergent, they have not yet been received into the public discourse. We are being asked to dismiss them before they have had a hearing.
That's not critical thinking, but opposition to it.
I think you're right about this.
The whole subject is rather odd, because they aren't even discussing "ideas" they're discussing *people* who discuss ideas.
I can never be interested long in such topics.
For me it's like watching other people playing poker.
"I know, let's go sit and watch people, sit and watch each other!" 😆😄😂
Exactly...you peel back the layers of ad hominem schlock and there's....nothing.
They are literally not discussing anything. But somehow they are called "thought leaders"?
Where's the thinking?
I suppose you could call it “though provoking?” 😆😄😂
The thought is coming from outside!
Interesting. I think you’re saying that the influencers on the right are using cancel culture to eliminate the competition? And why would they need to do that? I think it’s because fewer people are worried about life
since Trump is in office, and fewer people are following these fear mongers that appeal to a certain drama-addicted demographic. So they have to find new “scary dangers” to talk about. Have a lovely day, Peter!
Are influencers on the right using "cancel culture"? That's a fair assessment, although I'm sure Jordan Peterson would disagree.
Are fewer people "worried about life"? I'm not sure if that is the case or if people are simply choosing to worry about other aspects of life.
Donald Trump's election certainly has given many people the opportunity to declare "victory" of sorts in certain debates that have been ongoing in the public sphere. Trump's full-throated opposition to identity politics allows his election to stand as a rejection of identity politics, and much that goes with it, trans ideology and DEI especially.
That can leave some influencers in an awkward position. Having won their particular debates, the challenge for them is how to move on to new debates, and new problems to address.
It's not as if the country is suddenly free from problems!
And so some influencers are choosing to adopt "scare tactics" in an effort to maintain their audience and their presumed "relevance". They are seeking to extend debates that have already run their course, rather than moving on to new debates over new issues.
I think woke has always been a sickness period and hasn’t become “anything different”. Your concerns are justified, the cancers exposed. It all seems to be getting worse instead of better…the traitors of the right out there are showing their true stripes.
Jordan Peterson is becoming insufferable. He is guilty of falling in love with sound of his own voice and ideas.
Jordan Peterson has always been insufferable, and he's never been the profound thinker people have made him out to be.
Whenever people start talking like they have the inside track on truth, can safely bet they are the very least dead wrong, and quite probably lying to you.
He hides lack of profundity behind psychobabble and jargon, makes him seem erudite to those who struggle to understand the nomenclature.
Jordan Peterson a walking demonstration of something I've maintained for years, which is that the purpose of all jargon is to confuse the uninitiate.
As is apocryphally (mis)attributed to Albert Einstein, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." One of the more pithy formulations of the Law of Parsimony.
Peter, there you go again, being level-headed, fair, objective, insightful and generally excellent. You see the inherent aspects of humanity: the chafing at new competition, the egotistical need to keep the spotlight. Once a person obtains something of value - power, wealth, influence, attention - they gravitate to “if some is good, then more is better”. Anyone infringing on their striving for more is seen as a threat. It’s the rare person who can remain balanced, as you are. This alone is a good reason to listen to you, not to mention all the other good reasons.
The silver lining of increased competition amongst the Right is that it’s an indication of a larger audience being reached. There are so many followers, subscribers, readers and financial backers that more influencers see a way to make a living or become a star via this, and so the competition becomes fiercer. The solution is to grow the ‘pie’, and then there will be more ‘customers’ for everyone on the Right. A classic free-market solution!
I'm not sure how "balanced" I am--check back when I've got a gajillion paid subscribers!
But I will admit that tilting at windmills like this is in part to reach an ever wider audience. Yes, I want more readers, and I want more subscribers. I want people reading my Substack and eagerly waiting on me to publish fresh content.
That admission is something that doesn't come across when the influencer crowd complains about the "woke right"--or, for that matter, about the "woke left".
The problem with "woke" ideas is not that they are "woke", but that they don't work. Socialism (aka Marxism aka Communism) does not work. Critical Race Theory does not work. Identitarianism does not work.
These ideas are demonstrably at odds with empirical reality. They clash with documented history and documented science. In many instances, they clash with themselves, collapsing at the end in a puddle of reductio ad absurdum silliness.
Ideas which do not work do not work. It does not matter if the person spouting those ideas is on the political right or the political left.
Ideas which do work do work. It does not matter if the person spouting those ideas is on the political right or the political left.
That's how we can know that this pearl clutching over the "woke" right is fundamentally nonsensical. If it was just a case of bad ideas, Jordan Peterson and crew presumably could demolish the offending arguments with a few well-constructed counterarguments focused on the ideas. There would be no need to demonize the people making those arguments with insipid ad hominem comparisons to the "woke" left.
Always focus on the ideas. Not on the people and especially not on the labels.
That’s right. And most people are too caught up with the minutia of their own lives to consciously, rationally work out in their minds the merits and flaws of various ideas - but most eventually reject the flawed ideas such as CRT.
Here’s an indication of that: on the last day of my local library’s used-book sale, there were multiple copies of Woke books left unsold. CRT, Anti-Racism, Identity Politics - all the recent nonsense of ideas that could not withstand even subconscious scrutiny. Now these books were being given away for FREE - and they sat there on the table, completely unwanted. No one took them. Reality wins!
Reality has a really nasty habit of doing that!
Thank you, it’s getting more difficult to find people who critically think and examine from all sides AND be able to have civil discourse. People are conditioned to react emotionally and refuse to think, I guess it takes too much work? Fear of other people’s perceptions and protection of self-image? What an exhausting way to live on the roller coaster of emotions and public opinion with no solid ground of Truth and critical thinking which is warped, distorted and manipulated. Thank you for helping us stay grounded in reality.
The foundation of all critical thinking is to focus on the ideas, not the people. We engage with people about the ideas, but the essential elements of critical thought are always organized around the ideas themselves.
This is why the ad hominem response is properly understood to be a logical fallacy rather than a logical argument.
It's one thing to denounce ideas on the political left as "woke" at this point in the public discourse. The term "woke" originated on the political left and the evolution of the term into a pejorative charts the reception of "woke" ideas in the public discourse and, ultimately, the rejection of those ideas by at least some people.
It is quite a different thing to denounce emergent ideas on the political right as "woke". Being emergent, they have not yet been received into the public discourse. We are being asked to dismiss them before they have had a hearing.
That's not critical thinking, but opposition to it.