I don’t think they miss this. Some said other leaders from countries close to Ukraine came out without waiting for few hours for evidence to condemn Russia.
The fact that Russia was in the middle of a missile attack that stands in clear violation of Article 54 of Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1949 might have had something to do with that.
Deliberately attacking civilian targets far removed from the theater of combat is something that should be condemned--loudly. Without Russia's condemnable attack on innocent civilians no missiles land in Poland.
As for the S-300 missiles missing their targets, when over 85 missiles are launched at various targets, it is not unreasonable that there would be a few misses. If memory serves even the Russians have never claimed more than a 90% accuracy rate for the S-300 system. Not to mention the S-300 is not exactly a new weapons system.
While a few leaky-mouth politicians blathered about Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, the leadership of even Poland did not. They did invoke Article 4, which is a proportionate and reasonable response.
A very thoughtful post that focused on the facts, including some thinking regarding which facts are more important. This article serves as an example of how journalism should be.
Wow, thank you for the most comprehensive and intelligent article on this situation to date!
BRAVO!
You would think that "talks" would have begun between nations neighboring Ukraine and Russia at the onset of the military operation regarding potential collateral damage. Perhaps they did?
I have already seen articles blaming Ukraine S-300 air defense missiles, and reminding everyone of the Ukrainian downing of MH17, which was comprehensively proved to be due to Russian action.
I thought it was 2 missiles, which would seem even less likely that both could have missed the same amount. At least they have been initially identified as S-300 instead of Buks.
Peter, this is all messed up, and we can not be sure why, but thank you for superb reporting!
US Intel is saying one Ukie S-300 landed in Poland and Russia's MoD says NO strikes closer than 35Km Polish border areas.
Why? Every destroy anti - Slav, anti - Russia western country ganging up at G20, UN with their votes (vetoed by China). Chinese are active helping Russia and Russia's new law allowing foreign conscripts to join Wagner Group(s) we'll see more Chinese combatants.
MH17 was comprehensively proved to be due to Ukraine's actions. Russia reassembled the missile parts (serial numbered etc) that showed the TRUTH.
Bonus article: 11.16.2022...The G20’s Balinese Dance and Biden’s Calming Words
Significantly, the three-and-a-half-hour meeting happened at the Chinese delegation’s residence in Bali, and not at the G20 venue. And it was requested by the White House.
Biden, according to the Chinese, affirmed that the US does not seek a New Cold War; does not support “Taiwan independence”; does not support “two Chinas” or “one China, one Taiwan”; does not seek “decoupling” from China; and does not want to contain China.
Now tell that to the Straussians/neo-cons/neoliberalcons bent on containing China. Reality spells out that Xi has few reasons to take “Biden” – rather the combo writing every script in the background – at face value. So, as it stands, we remain in niskala.
"MH17 was comprehensively proved to be due to Ukraine's actions. Russia reassembled the missile parts (serial numbered etc) that showed the TRUTH. "
A Dutch criminal court disagrees with you, to the tune of three life sentences, one each for Igor Girkin, formerly of the FSB, Sergey Dubinskiy, formerly of the GRU, and Leonid Kharchenko, an Ukrainian separatist reported to have led an insurgent combat unit in Donetsk in 2014.
If Russia had such exculpatory evidence, why did it allow two Russian nationals and one Ukrainian separatist to take the fall for what you allege to be a Ukrainian act?
(BTW, I respectfully ask that anyone commenting in these threads refrain from using ethnic slurs. That includes such dismissive and demeaning epithets as "Ukie". Disagreement is welcome here. Being disagreeable is not.)
"The Joint Investigation Team (JIT), drawn from Australia, Belgium, Malaysia, the Netherlands and Ukraine, said Monday that it had made a request for information on serial numbers on missile components in May 2018.
“The JIT will carefully study the information brought out by the Russian Federation today” as soon as the documents are made available, it said in a statement."
No one has agreed MH17 was brought down by Ukraine when everyone knows it was Russia. Some have said it was also because Malaysia was't paying their "fees" for overflying Russian Fed territory.
My gut is telling me maybe a false flag from Ukraine. Tell me who benefits from this . USA,Ukraine WEF, and the war monger benefit from this.
The facts that have been reported is that this is a defensive missile that missed its target and landed in Poland.
No false flag.
I don’t think they miss this. Some said other leaders from countries close to Ukraine came out without waiting for few hours for evidence to condemn Russia.
The fact that Russia was in the middle of a missile attack that stands in clear violation of Article 54 of Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1949 might have had something to do with that.
Deliberately attacking civilian targets far removed from the theater of combat is something that should be condemned--loudly. Without Russia's condemnable attack on innocent civilians no missiles land in Poland.
As for the S-300 missiles missing their targets, when over 85 missiles are launched at various targets, it is not unreasonable that there would be a few misses. If memory serves even the Russians have never claimed more than a 90% accuracy rate for the S-300 system. Not to mention the S-300 is not exactly a new weapons system.
While a few leaky-mouth politicians blathered about Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, the leadership of even Poland did not. They did invoke Article 4, which is a proportionate and reasonable response.
A very thoughtful post that focused on the facts, including some thinking regarding which facts are more important. This article serves as an example of how journalism should be.
Wow, thank you for the most comprehensive and intelligent article on this situation to date!
BRAVO!
You would think that "talks" would have begun between nations neighboring Ukraine and Russia at the onset of the military operation regarding potential collateral damage. Perhaps they did?
I have already seen articles blaming Ukraine S-300 air defense missiles, and reminding everyone of the Ukrainian downing of MH17, which was comprehensively proved to be due to Russian action.
I thought it was 2 missiles, which would seem even less likely that both could have missed the same amount. At least they have been initially identified as S-300 instead of Buks.
Peter, this is all messed up, and we can not be sure why, but thank you for superb reporting!
US Intel is saying one Ukie S-300 landed in Poland and Russia's MoD says NO strikes closer than 35Km Polish border areas.
Why? Every destroy anti - Slav, anti - Russia western country ganging up at G20, UN with their votes (vetoed by China). Chinese are active helping Russia and Russia's new law allowing foreign conscripts to join Wagner Group(s) we'll see more Chinese combatants.
MH17 was comprehensively proved to be due to Ukraine's actions. Russia reassembled the missile parts (serial numbered etc) that showed the TRUTH.
Bonus article: 11.16.2022...The G20’s Balinese Dance and Biden’s Calming Words
https://www.unz.com/pescobar/the-g20s-balinese-dance-and-bidens-calming-words/
Snippet:
Significantly, the three-and-a-half-hour meeting happened at the Chinese delegation’s residence in Bali, and not at the G20 venue. And it was requested by the White House.
Biden, according to the Chinese, affirmed that the US does not seek a New Cold War; does not support “Taiwan independence”; does not support “two Chinas” or “one China, one Taiwan”; does not seek “decoupling” from China; and does not want to contain China.
Now tell that to the Straussians/neo-cons/neoliberalcons bent on containing China. Reality spells out that Xi has few reasons to take “Biden” – rather the combo writing every script in the background – at face value. So, as it stands, we remain in niskala.
"MH17 was comprehensively proved to be due to Ukraine's actions. Russia reassembled the missile parts (serial numbered etc) that showed the TRUTH. "
A Dutch criminal court disagrees with you, to the tune of three life sentences, one each for Igor Girkin, formerly of the FSB, Sergey Dubinskiy, formerly of the GRU, and Leonid Kharchenko, an Ukrainian separatist reported to have led an insurgent combat unit in Donetsk in 2014.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/europe/mh17-trial-verdict-intl/index.html
If Russia had such exculpatory evidence, why did it allow two Russian nationals and one Ukrainian separatist to take the fall for what you allege to be a Ukrainian act?
(BTW, I respectfully ask that anyone commenting in these threads refrain from using ethnic slurs. That includes such dismissive and demeaning epithets as "Ukie". Disagreement is welcome here. Being disagreeable is not.)
"MH17 was comprehensively proved to be due to Ukraine's actions. Russia reassembled the missile parts (serial numbered etc) that showed the TRUTH."
So why didn't Russia release documents or other evidence?
Because they want us to take their word for it?
Or they couldn't. Remember Russian photographic evidence of the intercept? LOL
Cause they have never lied or broken any treaty?
Just more disinformation from the masters of the same.
No Unz or antisemitism, pls.
Define anti-semitism.
Seriously?
So why didn't Russia release documents or other evidence?
Russia presented the evidence to UN Security Consul and blocked by US - Five Eyes countries. US has agreed MH17 was brought down by Ukraine also.
Asia Times...The G20’s Balinese dance and Biden’s calming words
https://asiatimes.com/2022/11/the-g20s-balinese-dance-and-bidens-calming-words/
The JIT is still waiting on the documents.
"The Joint Investigation Team (JIT), drawn from Australia, Belgium, Malaysia, the Netherlands and Ukraine, said Monday that it had made a request for information on serial numbers on missile components in May 2018.
“The JIT will carefully study the information brought out by the Russian Federation today” as soon as the documents are made available, it said in a statement."
No one has agreed MH17 was brought down by Ukraine when everyone knows it was Russia. Some have said it was also because Malaysia was't paying their "fees" for overflying Russian Fed territory.
Biden or Xiden?